"Organoids" is new. I had to look that one up. So they're brain, intestine, stomach, tooth (etc.) models on a cellular scale that react to therapies and drugs the same way the actual organ would? Wikipedia says that "Cerebral organoids may experience 'simple sensations' in response to external stimulation and neuroscientists are among those expressing concern that such organs could develop sentience." Do you think that's realistic? I guess it depends on how it's defined; if it's the ability to feel sensations as opposed to the ability to think, then it doesn't seem as unlikely. Still, no one worries about how planarians feel, so is the concern that cerebral organoids would develop actual consciousness?
It's not possible to overestimate the number of things I don't know about, but organoids have been around since the early 2010s and I'm just finding out about them now. I should read more.
@Fager - I think you summarized it nicely - Organoids are in vitro (out of the body) models of organ systems that recapitulate some key functions. Often, they are derived from that tissue or differentiated from induced-pluripotent stem cells. They were Nature Magazines 'Method of the Year' in 2017.
Cerebral organoids and neurons in general do in fact detect stimuli. There is nothing controversial about that component. I can (and have) cultured neurons in a dish and watched their response to specific chemical and mechanical stimuli. You can watch the feedback in real time with different imaging modalities or by utilizing microelectrode arrays.
There is an interest paper I was considering reviewing on cerebral organoids for this Substack - essentially, researchers trained neurons in a dish how to play the game 'Pong'. The researchers make the argument that neurons are tiny pattern recognition units that respond positively to patterned stimuli and negatively to stochastic stimuli. The researchers showed how when these neurons are embodied on a microelectrode array that functions as a closed feedback loop - neurons get better at the game when they are given patterned feedback as a 'reward' and stoichastic as a 'punishment'.
Are neurons play pong conscious? I don't think in a way that anyone should worry about. Is there a theoretical scenario where someone could create a sophisticated enough brain in a dish that is conscious? Maybe...
Organoids have increased in usage a lot in research in the last four or five years (at least in terms of my own exposure to labs I know using them). They're considered a better model than traditional in vitro cell lines, which makes sense.
I don't know much in terms of the cerebral organoids, though. I'll leave David to speculate on the sentience issue ;)
Completely agree on their rise to prominence in the past few years. I think sometimes they get used as a buzzword more than actually meaning something, e.g., spheroids, organoids, etc
Haha Karl Friston makes the claim that neurons in a dish do experience sentience! As far as I'm concerned, he is the GOAT in neuroscience.
Hey Nathan, I'm glad you enjoyed! I've been really blown away by the use of generative AI in the Baker lab to develop new molecules, e.g., macrocycles. One of my coworkers did his PhD over there and really directed my attention their way.
The weightloss therapeutics are insane. I think people will still need to do the work, but the losing fat while gaining muscle with an antibody is a major breakthrough. I'm wondering what type of stuff they find in their phase 3.
"Organoids" is new. I had to look that one up. So they're brain, intestine, stomach, tooth (etc.) models on a cellular scale that react to therapies and drugs the same way the actual organ would? Wikipedia says that "Cerebral organoids may experience 'simple sensations' in response to external stimulation and neuroscientists are among those expressing concern that such organs could develop sentience." Do you think that's realistic? I guess it depends on how it's defined; if it's the ability to feel sensations as opposed to the ability to think, then it doesn't seem as unlikely. Still, no one worries about how planarians feel, so is the concern that cerebral organoids would develop actual consciousness?
It's not possible to overestimate the number of things I don't know about, but organoids have been around since the early 2010s and I'm just finding out about them now. I should read more.
@Fager - I think you summarized it nicely - Organoids are in vitro (out of the body) models of organ systems that recapitulate some key functions. Often, they are derived from that tissue or differentiated from induced-pluripotent stem cells. They were Nature Magazines 'Method of the Year' in 2017.
Cerebral organoids and neurons in general do in fact detect stimuli. There is nothing controversial about that component. I can (and have) cultured neurons in a dish and watched their response to specific chemical and mechanical stimuli. You can watch the feedback in real time with different imaging modalities or by utilizing microelectrode arrays.
There is an interest paper I was considering reviewing on cerebral organoids for this Substack - essentially, researchers trained neurons in a dish how to play the game 'Pong'. The researchers make the argument that neurons are tiny pattern recognition units that respond positively to patterned stimuli and negatively to stochastic stimuli. The researchers showed how when these neurons are embodied on a microelectrode array that functions as a closed feedback loop - neurons get better at the game when they are given patterned feedback as a 'reward' and stoichastic as a 'punishment'.
Are neurons play pong conscious? I don't think in a way that anyone should worry about. Is there a theoretical scenario where someone could create a sophisticated enough brain in a dish that is conscious? Maybe...
Organoids have increased in usage a lot in research in the last four or five years (at least in terms of my own exposure to labs I know using them). They're considered a better model than traditional in vitro cell lines, which makes sense.
I don't know much in terms of the cerebral organoids, though. I'll leave David to speculate on the sentience issue ;)
Completely agree on their rise to prominence in the past few years. I think sometimes they get used as a buzzword more than actually meaning something, e.g., spheroids, organoids, etc
Haha Karl Friston makes the claim that neurons in a dish do experience sentience! As far as I'm concerned, he is the GOAT in neuroscience.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36228614/
"In vitro neurons learn and exhibit sentience when embodied in a simulated game-world"
😮
Another great summary, David. Haven't read much on macrocyles, so that was good to hear about.
The whole weight loss therapeutic market is insane.
Hey Nathan, I'm glad you enjoyed! I've been really blown away by the use of generative AI in the Baker lab to develop new molecules, e.g., macrocycles. One of my coworkers did his PhD over there and really directed my attention their way.
The weightloss therapeutics are insane. I think people will still need to do the work, but the losing fat while gaining muscle with an antibody is a major breakthrough. I'm wondering what type of stuff they find in their phase 3.
If a 100% effective weight loss pill came out. Would we shame those who take it for not losing the weight the traditional way?